Does the Bible Object More to Homophobia Than to Homosexuality?

But I do want to make this observation. I began my presentation this evening by appealing to the order of creation. And I am satisfied at this point, Laurene, that you have put experience on top of the agenda, the opposite of the Wesleyan quadrilateral. I am also satisfied that your experience of sexual identity has also inverted the order of God, life, choice, sex, from your words. Many times you backed away from that but I have written so many notes to myself: you have your experience, I have mine. And so, that's fair if we have different experiences. The question is how are experiences judged and how does God judge them. That's the first observation.

The second observation is Laurene, you are a very gracious person, and yet many times tonight you have set up a straw figure. You have set up a caricature of the radical right agenda. I have not once set up a caricature at all of homosexual organizations. You have talked about hate mail, you have talked about death threats.

LAURENE: [unintelligible comment]

JOHN: Reality, OK. I have not brought that to the subject because you'd be absolutely surprised to know what I've been through by extraordinary slander, deliberately, with media and newspaper people. And lawyers who I could have had disbarred because of what they did against me, trying to slander what I do. And the reason that I didn't do it is that's not my agenda. And they know I can do it, and yet they know they were false all the way through. But I didn't bring it up, and I'll tell you why I didn't bring it up. Because I don't think it is helpful whatsoever, that if either of us represent any point of truth, that we strengthen our case for truth by painting the caricatures of those who disagree with us. And so caricatures go in both directions.

And my concern is what Peter says: "Judgement begins with the household of God." And therefore, I'm far more concerned with how I treat you than I'm concerned with how anybody who disagrees with me treats me. On this basis I have a resolution that I am trying to get into non-binding status at state and federal levels. And this sums up my interpretation. This will be my conclusion of biblical ethics in this degree. And there's a theology behind this, but this is now constitutional language.

"Number 1. We believe that all persons hold the unalienable rights to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness in accord with the Declaration of Independence and the 5th and 14th amendments to the U.S. Constitution. As such, all persons hold equal dignity and equal protection under due process of law."

I will die if it's what I have to do before I will let a homosexual or anyone else suffer undue process of law, suffer discrimination. I would rather give up my freedom than have someone else be denied their freedom. Especially since the height of biblical ethics is the love of those who disagree with you.

"Number 2. We believe that the historic family unit rooted in heterosexual, faithful, monogamous marriage and the raising of children, is the basic institution in society. As such it deserves unique cultural and legal affirmation."

The basis for the institution of marriage is not for rights to be bestowed upon people, taking money from the government, pooled the way Barney Frank recently argued (not saying that you're arguing that). It's not that marriage is a right. It's a responsibility. And I believe that if in any way we do not maintain the unique nature of heterosexual, faithful, monogamous marriage, as all of history has demonstrated, cultures will unwind.

"Number 3. For those who by choice, circumstance, or the brokenness of adversity are unable to participate fully or partly as members of the historic family unit, they should be equally free from punitive laws restricting private association, whether heterosexual or homosexual."

I do not have a puritanistic interpretation of a desire for laws against private sexual behavior, even if it's what I disagree with. And the reason is...

"Number 4. All persons, however, must accept accountability for the public consequences of their private associations and actions and that they in no way deprive others of life, liberty, or property."

I don't want the government to be responsible for the consequences of my sexual acts. My four children are my responsibility and my wife's responsibility. By the same token, for those who live outside of marriage, I don't think they should have the government or society pay for the consequences of their choices. I believe in radical equality right here, the ethics of choice. And I believe that, as sociological data show, the people who live the longest and the happiest and are the most economically productive are those who are married and have children.

"Number 5. On this basis civil rights do not become balkanized into special interest groups competing against each other."

MODERATOR: One minute, John.

JOHN: Oh, time up. OK, one sentence.

"Those in the majority (that is, myself as a married man or believing in marriage) have no greater access to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness than those in a given minority, whether that minority is objectively or subjectively defined."

I believe that the Bible underscores heterosexuality in marriage. It does not do so for homosexuality. I am confident enough in that that the last thing I will ever do is deny Laurene or anyone else the equal access to make their argument. But I will make my argument with equal passion. Thank you.

[applause]

JEFF SHORT: I want to thank you all for being a part of our debate. I want to thank Laurene for coming down from Denver to argue that position and John to argue the opposite.

It boils right down to this for Christians: what does the Bible have to say about this issue? We hope that the presentations today were helpful in clarifying in your mind what the Bible says about this issue. That's the authority we as Christians need to look to. We need to ask ourselves, what does this book that I hold up as an authority say about this issue, and then conform to what it says.

Let's bow in prayer as a final closing to our debate. Would you bow with me in prayer.

God, we thank you that we were able to have a debate tonight. We were able to argue both sides. We are able to do that in an orderly way. We thank you for that. And Lord, I pray that the truth will rise to the top. I pray that you will clarify in our minds what it is that you are communicating in your Word about homosexuality. And that you will allow us then to live that truth. Help guide us into that truth. We thank you for this night, Lord, and we pray this in Jesus' name.

Amen.