[ Contents | Summary | Opening Statement by Mel White | Opening Statement by John Rankin | Dialogue | Questions from Listeners ]

Dialogue

Neil: Mel White is our guest. He's in the news lately, after having his book, Stranger at the Gate, come out. It's subtitled, "To Be Gay and Christian in America". We did not, I guess, say this earlier, but Mel was married, for how many years, Mel? Mel: Twenty-four. Neil: Twenty-four, and in the process I think you had two natural children, adopted one, and perhaps one other? Mel: No, we had five miscarriages, adopted, and then had a little boy. We have a girl and a boy. And now a granddaughter named Katy. Hello, Katy, wherever you are. This is grampa. Neil: And when you came out about your homosexuality, did you divorce your wife at that point? Mel: No. I told my wife from the beginning that I was struggling with this subject of homosexuality. And she said, what do you want to do about it? And I said, let's struggle together. So for twenty-four years, we did every possible thing from fasting and prayer to electric shock to overcome it. Finally we came to the place where we realized that it just wasn't appropriate for a gay man and a straight woman to be married. So we went on parenting and are still best friends. She writes the introduction to the book. Neil: I was just going to say, she wrote the forward to the book, which I found very interesting. Respond to John briefly, let's get a little dialogue going here, and then I want to get to some calls from our listeners, if you fellows don't mind. Mel: I think John is great. And I think so many of his comments were important. And his love for Christ and for the Word is evident. And I support him in all of that. And if his spirit could prevail, right now, if if we could stop yelling at each other across these great chasms of misunderstanding, and if we could talk quietly and listen quietly. I think John sets the stage for what could make the difference. So John it's been a pleasure to be on this broadcast with you. John: Well thank you. Neil: How do you feel about the fact that John absolutely disagrees with you on the issue of homosexuality, however? Mel: Oh, for me, my brothers and sisters in Christ can disagree and be civil and it makes absolutely such a wonderful difference. John and I will have a long discussion, you bet we'll talk about this for weeks, right John? John: Yes, this is true. Mel: We'll be passing data back and forth and we'll be playing dueling Bibles and really enjoying it. Because that's what Christian brothers and sisters are about. He doesn't expect me to change on the air, and I don't expect to change him. But see, he's willing to listen and I'm willing to listen. And in the process we'll grow closer to each other and to Christ. I like what he said about so many things, they were caveats of warning that were so hopeful and helpful to gay people. For example, his words about killing gays and lesbians by misunderstanding the Levitical laws. So basically, though John disagrees with me, John doesn't dishonor me or discriminate against me, and I thank him for that. Neil: John, in conducting a dialogue like this, is there a danger of communicating a stamp of approval? In other words, how do you respond to the fact that you do disagree? What's the value of a conversation like this in your mind? John: Oh, I think the value is measureless. Look at the disagreement to which Jesus subjected himself when he accepted the invitation to go to the Pharisee's house. When he was open to the accusation of wining and dining with tax collectors and drunkards. Look at the accusation when he reached out to the woman caught in the act of adultery, and other people in the face of sin. And when he looked at them and he removed from those people, particularly that woman, the hypocritical accusers, he was able to look in her eyes with love and say, neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. I have preached in probably over a thousand churches over the years, everything from Unitarian to Catholic and everything in between. And I have been on maybe seventy-odd campuses over the years. And I teach seminars in the churches all the time. And I find the overwhelming majority of the Christian church, when you take a little bit of time to highlight mercy as the strategy point of our sharing forth the Gospel, versus condemnation. It's just so very, very well received. And the reason that I believe it is, is not that I have anything new, but indeed it is very old, namely, this is the nature of the Gospel. This is what distinguishes Christianity from every other world religion, apart from the Hebrew faith from which Christianity springs and fulfills. But namely, is the freedom to give to people. And I think something Mel said was very correct. I have no agenda to convert him on the air or to convert anybody else by my power. There was a student at Brown University once who came up to me after a forum and debate. And she said, you know John, when I came in here tonight I hated you for three reasons, never met you, but I hated you. Number one you're a man, number two you're pro-life, and number three you're a Christian. And I was thinking to myself, strike three I'm out. And she said, but, you treated me with more respect, intelligence, and graciousness than any of my professors here at Brown. But especially you gave me questions to think about I'd never thought about. I just wanted to thank you. Then she looked at me bugged-eyed and said, not to say I'm converted yet! And I then interjected and said, you have given me the greatest compliment I could hope to receive. Because if there is a God in heaven, who I say there is, revealed through the person and work of Jesus Christ, then his holy spirit will convert you, not me. And I think if we really believe that the Bible is true, and this is the thesis in my book I'm writing called "The Ethics of Choice," if we really believe the Bible is true, then the last thing we'll ever do is impose it upon other people. The last thing we'll ever do is treat people disparagingly. So I do sense that some people who make a political issue take precedence over the Gospel, may have to listen a little bit more closely to what I say to see that I'm not compromising. But when you see the fruit of what we've experienced over the years, which I won't go into now, I've had nothing but virtual affirmation within the body of Christ, and based on my love for the scriptures. Neil: Mel? Mel: This is Mel again. John reflects the spirit of his namesake, the apostle John, who records Jesus as saying in his last sermon, "By this, love, will all people know that you are my disciples." You can tell in the spirit of John who we've been hearing, that the spirit of love is so much more important than the issue on the table. Because what he is saying is, I love you like Jesus would love you. Now let's talk about the issues. I take them very seriously. And I can tell John takes the issues very seriously. But when I'm left with this discussion, I know John knows Jesus. And as a gay Christian I salute that. Because that's the thing that's going to solve this problem. We're going to find the issues that way, and that way alone. Next

[ Contents | Summary | Opening Statement by Mel White | Opening Statement by John Rankin | Dialogue | Questions from Listeners ]